Willam Leonard

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Atlanta Startup Podcast. My name is William Leonard, and I’m your co host. Today’s episode is one that you all will love. I’m sitting down with Morgan J. Ingram of JB Sales Training to talk about, well, everything about sales. Morgan and I discuss more about cold calling and whether it’s dead or not. Tips for entry-level sales professionals to up their game with clients and customers, and how JB Sales is helping their customers get out of ruts and get back to exceeding quotas. Morgan also provides us with some tangible takeaways on how we can all elevate our sales games. For those of you who don’t know, Morgan is a sales expert and has a podcast and TikTok where he gives us all the sales content you can handle. So tune in, take notes, and listen in for Morgan’s tips, advice, and insights for all sales professionals. Morgan, welcome to the podcast, man. 

Morgan Ingram 

Happy to be here and to dive into this.

Willam Leonard

Awesome, man. I know you if somebody looks at your Linkedin, they’re gonna see everything you’ve got going on. I think three times LinkedIn top sales voice, host of the 1UP Formula podcast, you’re also creating content on Instagram and Tik Tok. 

Morgan Ingram 

That’s been fun. 

Willam Leonard

I love it. Man. I love it. We’re gonna dive into that. I guess to start off with who’s Morgan Ingram? What’s your background?

Morgan Ingram 

Who am I? That could be a long conversation. We could go back and forth on that. But keep it really simple for everybody. My background is I started off in sales as an SDR sales development rep. If you’re in tech, you know what that is. A hunter, cold calling, emailing, reaching out to people to schedule meetings. It’s not something that I wanted to do, though. I never wanted to go into sales. I actually wanted to go into marketing, out of all places originally, but marketing is weird with entry-level positions because they tell you that you need five years of experience for a job that is right out of college. The logic is flawed to me. When I started off in sales, I was not good at it at all. I had to really practice to get better at it, which eventually allowed me to then start creating content on being an SDR. I created a YouTube channel called the SDR Chronicles, which is crazy to think about that, it’s five to six years ago. That’s what got me to where I’m at today. I never will come from a place of like, “This is it, this is exactly what you should do.” I come from a place of sharing what I’ve learned in my journey that I’ve seen work and work for other clients and other agencies that I have. That’s just where I’m coming from. And so that’s the YouTube channel, I came from a level of transparency, and just very direct content. That helped me get promoted to manager. I had 13 reps that I was managing. And then from those 13 reps that I was managing, hit their goals, I got approached by another trainer called John Barrows. He trained Salesforce, Slack, all these big companies that we just mentioned. He wanted me to come on as his first trainer that he was going to hire. I did that and I’ve been doing that for four years now. I’m able to day to day sales coaching, help different mentees, help different clients. And then also create, we just mentioned like Instagram and things of that nature, create content so that I can evolve the space of sales reps that help the future of those people as well. That’s everything about it, and what I’m doing today, and how I got where I am today.

Willam Leonard

I love it, man. You said you wanted to be in marketing, but you ended up in sales. A plan B, Plan C, or D. 

Morgan Ingram 

Plan Z!

Willam Leonard

Seriously, can you talk to us about your first experiences in the industry, and then the evolution of your learning and understanding of sales to being the first trainer for JB Sales.

Morgan Ingram 

I didn’t know what I was doing. You get into it. I didn’t know what a CRM was. I didn’t know what a tech stack was. I didn’t understand what SaaS meant, these are just things that I just didn’t know. I had no idea what was going on, to keep it real. Because I didn’t have any idea what was going on, that made it difficult for me to translate to people on what I would like to do, and how to make these processes and systems, etc. I would say the first thing is that I wasn’t 100% committed to sales. And if you’re going to do anything, I believe you have to be 100% committed to it. And if you find out, it’s not for you, that’s fine but you’ll never know if it was for you or not if you’re not 100% committed. That was like the first step I had to take is get 100% committed mentally, which allowed me to get better at it. And then number two is I had to care about the people I was talking to. You can be thoughtful and be 100% of your work. But you also have to care about the other people you’re working with. I didn’t have that connection yet. It wasn’t until John actually was like, “You’re not really caring about this process with the clients.” I really had to think about that to be like, “Dang, I really am not.” That’s when I started caring more about the clients. I was talking to the prospects which allowed me to be more thoughtful in the way I was delivering this content and talking to people. That was the main thing that I had to get through to get better at the sales process. Those are the obstacles that I faced as well. 

Willam Leonard

I think that’s interesting. Being 100% committed is gonna make your experience that much better. I feel like either way, right? Because you’re not wasting time in the space where you could be there just dilly-dallying around. Talk to us a little bit about the stigma and the preconceived notions about sales careers versus what it actually is and what it can be like when you’re 100% committed to the industry.

Morgan Ingram 

I feel like most people think it’s toxic, right? Aggressive. “I gotta be up in people’s faces.” “I don’t get any sleep.” And there are some pieces where it’s a lot of hard work. You could spend a lot of hours doing this. But that’s not what it is. The goal of sales is to solve problems which means that it’s something that we do every single day because every day we are solving some type of problem in our life. If you think about your day, you are solving a problem for somebody, or you’re negotiating with somebody about something. They can be small things within those things in those parameters. But that’s what’s happening. Once you realize that sales are pretty much your life, then you’re like, “I need to learn this skill because I will forever have something that everyone needs.” Everyone needs to be able to sell something because if you can’t sell it, you can’t make money. If you don’t have money, you can’t do all the stuff that you want to do, right? If you understand that fundamental skill of, I need to sell to get better, then that’s what you should focus on, right? And then ultimately, because you’re solving problems, I always tell people sales is essentially a puzzle. Some sales can be easy, right? There are puzzles that are like 50 pieces, right? You finished it in two minutes. But then there are some puzzles that are 10,000 pieces, right? That’s when you get into complex enterprise sales. But the puzzle. At the end of the day, the framework is the same. When you get a puzzle, you find the edges, and then you build from the edges. That’s how you do a puzzle. That’s also something on what sales is, as well. Once you understand that a sales career can help you forever, whether you’re an entrepreneur, you are in sales or marketing, it doesn’t matter what role you’re in, you’re always selling. You don’t realize it until you acknowledge that we are in sales, and you need to learn it.

Willam Leonard

I think everybody, no matter what career path they’re in, is in sales in some capacity. I’m in the venture but the venture is sales, right? You’re selling LPs to invest in you. Equally, you’re selling founders as to why you should be on their cap table. And it’s something that’s unavoidable, right? I took so many sales classes in high school and in college. I hated it, man. I hate it. It’s something you have to embrace and really learn. I like your puzzle analogy as well. I think it really simplifies it and puts it together. I want to dig into a little bit about your day-to-day with JB Sales and what are some of the biggest problems that are plaguing modern salespeople today in enterprises on the private side of things as well.

Morgan Ingram 

Wow. I’m gonna give three things that are obstacles for modern sellers. And when I say these things, I want everyone to think about how you can have solutions to them. I’ll give you some solutions but there could be other ones as well beyond what I’m gonna say. Number one, this is gonna hurt some of y’all when I say it, is laziness. Now, why is this happening? It’s happening because there are so many tools, right? I have a sales engagement tool. I have a video tool. I have a data tool. I have a CRM, I have a tool that records my calls. I have a tool that does this, I have a tool that does that. I own so many tools. And if you’re an account executive, you’re a salesperson, maybe you got an SDR who’s giving you leads, the market is giving you leads, right? What happens is that you get lazy because you’re like, “Oh, these products, these solutions could do all these things for me.” When you become lazy and you expect other people to do things for you. You lose consistency. And when you lose consistency, you don’t have momentum When you don’t have momentum, the results start to falter. Because momentum is everything. You watch an NBA game and all NBA game is momentum swings. There’s momentum in the game, and whoever you find has the most momentum will win the game. It’s the same thing in sales. If you have momentum, you’re more confident in handling objections, you’re more confident to prospect, you’re more confident in closing your deals. If you don’t, and so you don’t want to go prospect, you’re hesitant in handling objections, you do discounts for 40%, which you should not be doing at all, right? Because you don’t have momentum. I would say that’s the number one piece is laziness. Laziness leads to no momentum, and no momentum leads to no results. And it has to do with products, it has to do with outside factors, which is why you have to focus on your own destiny. Get the focus on yourself, right? That’s laziness. Number two is short-term or short-term gratification. Now, a lot has to do with dopamine, right? We’re all looking for dopamine hits, and it’s elevated over time, because we have social media, right? Instagram, Tiktok, and all the things in the world give us instant dopamine hits, and we’re continuously looking for that dopamine hit. Because we live in this size as sales reps. You’re looking for a quick fix. How can I get the number one template that’s gonna give you a 100% reply rate? There isn’t an email that has a 100% reply rate, right? I wouldn’t be here, right? Nobody would be a sales coach or trainer if we figured that out. We would have given you the information, we will charge a lot of money, and we’ll be out. That’s not the case. I can’t give you the number one thing to say on the phone that will give you a 100% conversion rate. That’s not real. I can’t give you what to say on in so everyone loves you. That’s not real. But that’s the problem, we live in the short term gratification. You see people on Instagram doing their things. All that’s an illusion. And once you realize that this is a game of number one, consistency, that’s why I started with that. You have to think about the long term. How are you engaging people on LinkedIn, the long term, taking a little bit more time to write out personalized emails, the long term prepping to understand your persona so when you make calls, you’re actually relevant to the people. You will win as a sales rep if you realize I need a long-term focus, let me get away from short-term satisfaction and gratification. That could just be like not being on social media as much because that’s the reason why you feel that way if you want to go deeper. Once you’ve realized that, you’re gonna be better than everyone else because you’re going to take the extra effort that I’m telling you most reps don’t do because they just want the quick wins. “Oh, what’s this template that’s gonna…” That’s a horrible mindset. There’s a difference. You have to think about the framework for success, right? A framework is different than a template. Templates say this exact thing. A framework is here are the steps and you have to fill them in. That’s number two. I would say number three, this one’s gonna hurt some people too, hopefully, they don’t come after me after this podcast.

William Leonard

It’ll be alright. 

Morgan Ingram 

But in all seriousness, ego. All these points are piling on top of each other. We have an ego because we’re like, “I’m number one in the world and my company. I’m the greatest.” Ego distracts you from continuously improving every single day. I got the mamba mentality behind me. Huge Kobe fan, rest in peace and gone too soon. He talks about getting 1% better every single day forever. Not just, “I won the championship, so I’m good.” It’s, “I’ve already won five championships, and I’m still trying to get better every single day.” One thing that I found fascinating about Kobe, that I would encourage everybody to do the same, is that when you’re learning sales it’s not just about reading sales books. I’m reading 48 Laws of Power right now. I’m trying to get deeper, right? Human nature, psychology, how do humans interact? Why do they actually buy things? What are the emotions behind that? You have to really tap into that to get better at sales. It’s not just reading a sales book or listening to a sales podcast or doing those things. My point is, Kobe used to cold-call random CEOs. Doctors, people, “Hey, I’m Kobe.” They’re like, “Kobe, why are you cold calling? You couldn’t just email me? You could have just pulled up. Like you’re Kobe.” He’s like, “No, I just want to cold call you. I have a couple of questions.” They’re like, ”Questions? You’re Kobe.” This is after he had won like with Shaq and all those things, right? ”You’re Kobe. You’re winning championships.” “No, I’m just trying to learn. I need to understand. Why did you acquire that company?” And they would obviously give them the answers. Why is that important? Kobe doesn’t really need to talk to anyone because his success was already there. Like he could have been like, “All I care about is basketball. I don’t care about anything else.” And he could erode that out. But because he was looking to grow 1% better every single day. He’s like, “I’m the best of my craft but I’m still asking questions. I’m still trying to figure things out.” And that’s what I encourage everyone to do as well. Still ask questions to try to figure things out. Those are the three things that you could do to be the best modern sales professional that you can be.

William Leonard

Hmm, that’s interesting. That’s such strong advice, as a lot of our listeners are founders, investors, but as a part of being a founder, you’re hiring talent, right? You’re going to be hiring sales development reps, BDRs, you’re going to be hiring VP of Sales to bring on so having these conversations is going to be so important for those stakeholders. I’m curious, you touched on cold calling a bit. Is that still happening in the industry today?

Morgan Ingram 

This is funny. We’re having a conversation some about this morning. I want to break this down, because people say, “Oh, cold calling is dead.” And I don’t like that. I actually got at the beginning of my career actually got called out for saying something was dead. I appreciate the person calling me out –  now, in retrospect, at the moment, I was like, “I don’t like you.” – but in retrospect, I understand what he was saying. And like, now I’m saying, “I’m going to say the same thing.” What is the definition of dead? That means it’s not moving, right? Deceased. Nothing is happening. When I hear cold calling is dead, that means to me it’s not working. I talked to every single sales rep in the industry, they tell me they’re getting no conversions on the phone. That’s not happening right now. Is cold calling a little bit harder because of the data? Sure. Is it harder because most people might not be picking it up? Sure. Is it harder because most people don’t know what they’re saying on the phone so it’s harder to convert? Sure. To say that it’s dead, though, logically doesn’t make sense based on the definition of what dead is. What I tell people is that it is still relevant because if you can get someone on the phone, you know what you’re saying, you have a higher chance of conversion because, again, as I said, most people are not approaching it the right way. All you have to do is what is my framework for making cold calls? Practicing my downward inflections, how I handle objections, being confident in there is still is a massive opportunity. I don’t make as many cold calls as I used to when I was an SDR. But if I’m really trying to get in front of someone, I will still pick up the phone and call them. Here’s an example. Let’s pick Delta. Everyone knows Delta, if you don’t fly Delta here from Atlanta, I don’t know. We got to talk to you, right? When you’re trying to get maybe a refund for a flight because like something bad happened, and they miss the post or something, it’s gonna be a lot harder for you to get a response via email versus calling them. When I have a problem with an organization of something, emailing them, I don’t do that. I call them to let them know my urgency, my seriousness, how upset I am because humans are emotional beings. You can’t feel that emotion via email, and you may have read it wrong. But if I call and say, “Look. There was this baby that was kicking my back. I told the flight attendant, she didn’t take care of it.” They’re probably gonna do something because they feel my energy versus sending that an email. That’s also what I want you all to think about when saying cold calling is dead. I want you to think about when you have a problem, or you’re trying to really address something and get something done, you call somebody. It’s the same thing here.

William Leonard

That makes sense. There are so many situations where I’ve personally had to rectify something and email mediums in chatbots just don’t do it. It makes sense. I love that. And so relative to JB Sales training, when you’re working with clients, what is the experience that they can expect from you?

Morgan Ingram 

That’s actually a really good question because there are so many sales trainings and sales coachings. What we tell our clients is that there are a lot of different trainers and coaches out there, and we know what we do well and we know what we are not the best at and we refer you to those people. When people come and experience with us, it is an experience. Number one is we’re very, very tactical. Everything we talk about is what we do. Every trainer in the organization is a full sales cycle person. We are running our own sales cycles of doing it on prospecting. We show you what we’re doing in real-time to be like, “Hey, this is something really cool that we’re doing.” I think, first and foremost, that is what collectively everyone should be focusing on is elevating their craft, and sharing with others. That’s what we do. Two is that we make it more of an experience. We make it very engaging for people. When we do train, it’s not like, “Here’s the training.” No, we’re having a conversation with you versus a presentation. When my mentor said, “You want to have a conversation with people rather than a presentation. You want them to feel included, and not feel like you’re on the pedestal talking down to them, because it makes people not want to actually interact with you.” Very interesting concept that he broke down, but it makes sense. When people work with us, we’re giving you all the tactics and frameworks to be successful. We’re straight to the point, we’re not going to give you golden templates, right? That’s not going to happen. But we’re also going to show you what works in real-time. We’re going to be honest with that.

William Leonard

Sounds like this experience is very transparent, very hands-on, and inclusive. When you think about those adjectives, what types of customers are you all working with? What types of organizations? Is there a certain revenue threshold or employee threshold there has to be?

Morgan Ingram 

Great questions. We work with people across the board. We’ve added a little bit to that, I’ll talk about what adding means. I would say the normal client that we get is mid-market level, enterprise-level because I mentioned Salesforce, and they typically will have 15 to 30 reps+. That’s a normal client because they want to put normally 20-30 reps into training with the managers and leaders are in there. And then as we do it, we used to deliver that on-site, obviously, COVID and Optimus Prime Omicron came out, honestly, we’re not doing on-site as much. People are starting to slowly trickle back, but we’re not doing as much. Because of that, we’ve got virtual and that’s what we’re doing there. Now, when it comes back to what I was just talking about when we’re working with clients, we really want to be able to see people who, again it’s not all the time, but normally in the tech, SaaS environments, and maybe MarTech as well. If they’re in the SaaS environment, they have an SDR/AE model, that’s where we work really well with organizations. We work with organizations outside of that, but it normally is that tech SaaS realm. And then people who are below the 15 thresholds who can’t maybe invest into the normal training that we do, we have a membership program. That membership program is for entrepreneurs, it’s for people who have one or two reps that they want to get involved. We are making, as it is going on, more and more hands-on. We’re developing Slack or like getting into that. We also have AMA’s weekly, you get recordings of our webinars, we’re about to do special events, obviously, once we get back in person. These are things that we’re doing to develop that community because those people also need to learn sales as well. It’s just we have our corporate training for those clients who don’t have that type of revenue but doing really good on their AR.

William Leonard

It sounds like you and the team are offering a very robust, comprehensive set of services to your clients. You’ve been at JB since 2017. I’m sure you’ve worked with way too many customers to count. But is there a particular success story that stands out to you that you can speak about from your experience with JB Sales?

Morgan Ingram 

There’s an organization that I worked with, they hired a lot of SDRs. When an organization hires a lot of SDRs, it’s really spot on. Their manager had been to the training before and their VP had been through our training before as well. They were advocates of us. They hired like 20 new people in the past two months. They already had existing 10 SDRs. They were looking to ramp really hard, right? I really love this story because the people that were coming in had no idea what sales or sales development were.  The 10 people that were there weren’t really hitting their numbers as much as well. They brought me in to do the training. I just loved the results. Typically, we see them like 30-45 days after. From the training and the action that they took, the team consistently was able to hit their team quota. All the people that they came in that were ramping, were able to hit their ramp quota and some people hit over the ramp quota. They were able to see increases in their email reply rates from 3-8% which is pretty solid across the team if you look at email reply rates, their connection rates 2X’d and their conversion rates 2X’d. For me, that was an amazing story to work with that team because they had so many people coming in that had no idea what to do. They took the information, they executed it, and they saw results. I would definitely shout out to them for that.

William Leonard

I feel like sales is just such an in-the-moment, iterative process, where you’re constantly refining your pitch, your materials, like you said, your arc of how you’re trying to paint the narrative to your customers. I love that. Looking ahead to 2022, now that you’ve been with JB Sales for going on five years now, what’s the next exciting thing that you all are working on internally? 

Morgan Ingram 

The most exciting thing that we’re working on right now internally is elevating the content that we put out to the market. What I mean by that is we have been refining the way that we go about delivering our webinars. We have really been fine-tuning how we can make them more interactive. For example, next week, we’re doing a mock cold call webinar. That’s different than what we do. We’re doing different bracket challenges that we’re going to be announcing. We’re getting more in-depth into the community, which is exciting. I would say we’re even diving deeper into our members and certain things. As I said, the membership is what we’re really diving into. This is the most exciting thing we’re working on, we’re building out Slack, we’re getting people more connected. Today’s the final day. We’re doing a prospecting challenge. What we did is we had everybody who needs to build a pipeline, and we said, “Hey, come into Slack channel.” We’re giving them advice. We’re giving them tips to go schedule meetings. We have results that they’re sharing in the Slack channels like what they’re getting, and this is all been free. These are things that we’re doing is just diving deeper into our community. We like to call them the Bryans or the Briannas of life because we name them. We’re really just trying to service them as much as we can.

William Leonard

That’s awesome. And I think, really understanding how your customer is evolving and you all are evolving right alongside them. I think that’s the most important thing there. That’s awesome. As we wrap up the conversation here, you touched on some of the problems that you see plaguing modern salespeople today. But if there’s a new AE, a new BDR, just joined a company at the top of the year, what are two or three practical tips for helping them to literally up their sales game and just absolutely crush it this year?

Morgan Ingram 

Number one, is you need to go talk to customer success. I know that sounds like, “Oh my God, why would I do that?” You need to because you’re not going to be able to sell more or get more meetings if you can’t speak the same language as your prospects. You need to know how they talk, and why they talk the way that they do, right? Otherwise, it’s not gonna work out. Just like how each country has its own slang and lingo, you need to know the lingo of your buyers. I would say go talk to Customer Success immediately. The second is to know your game plan, know your numbers. Most people walk into the year, they have a million quota. And they just look around, guesswork? No, you need to know. Okay, every month, where should I be at every day? Every week where should I be at? You need to know this to the tee. Because if you don’t, you’re going to be struggling, it’s not gonna look good for you. You need to go look back and be like, “Okay, what do I need to do to get hit a million dollars in my quota.” And I always tell people to do this, is you need to 2.53x that quota, and then work off as you’re trying to hit 2.5 million, 3 million. You may not do that. But you need to put the work in as if you’re trying to do that. Because then you will ultimately just hit 1 million regardless, right? 

William Leonard

What is the reasoning behind 2.35x? I’m curious as to why it’s so specific.

Morgan Ingram 

I’m so grained in on it. Because it’s easier, you’re going to remember 2.5, right? Also, it’s based on the effort that you need to put in, right? Because if you only 2x it, then you might hit a little bit below that. The goal is I’m saying 2.53x because it’s really just a good perfect number to be at because if you Forex, that’s way too aggressive, right? If you 1.5x, it’s too small. 2x you’re just not really there yet. 2.53x is right where you need to be in. It’s also a realistic amount of activities that you can do. Because otherwise, you’re just gonna go way too much, or you’re gonna go way too little. I heard that like on a podcast, too. And this is how they broke it down. I did the same thing last year. I hit my goal way earlier than I was supposed to but I just followed what he said. And he was like, “This is the reason why I say 2.53x because you want to have that work effort.” That’s the reason he broke down on that.

William Leonard

Got it. I love that advice, man. I think that’s so tangible. It’s so practical, it’s easy, but it needs to be done, right? You need to know who you’re going to be speaking to, like you said, speaking that language, really encompassing that persona is going to put you in a whole different ballgame. That’s awesome. That’s great advice. You’re also a podcaster yourself. Talk a little bit about the 1UP Formula podcast before we hop off.

Morgan Ingram 

When I first saw the SDR Chronicles, I was documenting my journey as an SDR. I talked about it and it was just solely focused on sales. As I’ve trained other people, I’ve been talking to other people, I realized that you have to go beyond just sales. It’s your mind, it’s your spirit, it’s all these deeper conversations. The 1UP Formula comes from Mario because I’m a gamer. When he takes the mushroom and it grows, that’s where it’s from. But the whole thing is you can be great at sales but lose all the money and well-being and mental health from being great at sales. What I mean is, you can make all this money, but your life still be sad and miserable, because you didn’t do the deep work to elevate yourself. What I know is the future of the sales profession is not the Wolf of Wall Street, it’s not the guy. It’s not that, right? We’ve gone way past that. I’m trying to show people that this is the future where you make great money. We’re not going to stop giving you sales advice. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying I’m giving you sales advice, and more. What should you be doing, it’s looking crazy right now, in the stock market, right? Because if you have stocks, you’re freaking out, oh, it’s not looking good, right? I want to bring people on to talk about that. Mental Health. What does that actually mean? Spirituality? What does that actually mean? That’s what I want to be able to do. That’s why we’re doing the podcast.

William Leonard

I love it. You’re really digging deeper, just past the surface level of sales. I think that’s so important, especially in a career like that, where burnout is very prevalent and can happen without you even realizing it and creep up on you and just impact you. Now that’s kind of like a reverberating effect throughout your year, your month. your goals. I think being proactive and understanding ways to avoid those burnout weighs to build a stronger mental mindset is important. I’m sure that listeners certainly appreciate that. For our listeners here, if they’re really compelled and convicted by your energy, what is the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Morgan Ingram 

LinkedIn, Morgan J Ingram, @morganjingram on Instagram, if you want to watch me try to figure out TikTok, @morganjingram. Those are the main places and again if you want to check out what we’re doing for memberships and webinars, go to type out JB Sales and all the information is there as well.

William Leonard

Cool, cool. I love it, man. Morgan, I really appreciate you jumping on this morning to talk more about your background, know your content that you’re creating, JB Sales, customer success stories, advice for new AEs, new reps into the industry, and how they can crush it this year. I think this is this episode is gonna really resonate with our listeners across the spectrum. I’m excited and thankful you joined today, man. 

Morgan Ingram 

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.

Lisa

We’re thrilled to have you as an Atlanta Startup Podcast listener to help you get the most out of the experience. Let me invite you to three insider opportunities from our host Valor Ventures. First, want to be a guest on this amazing show. Reach out to our booking team at atlantastartuppodcast.com. Click on booking, It’s a no-brainer from there. Are you raising a seed round? Valor definitely wants to hear from you. Share your startup story at valor.vc/pitch. Are you a woman or minority-led startup valor sister program? The Startup Runway Foundation gives away grants to promising startups led by underrepresented founders. The mission of the Startup Runway Foundation is connecting underrepresented founders to their first investors. Startup runway finalists have raised over $40 million. See if you qualify for one of these amazing grants at startuprunway.org. You can also sign up for our next showcase for free there. Let me let you go today with a shout-out to Startup Runway presenting sponsor Cox Enterprises and to our founding partners, American Family Institute, Truist, Georgia Power, Avanta Ventures, and Innovators Legal. These great organizations make Startup Runway possible. Thanks for listening today and see you back next week.