William Leonard
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Atlanta Startup Podcast. My name is William Leonard, your host for today. And I’m thrilled to be sitting down with Michael Belles who is the co-founder and manager at Catalyze. Michael, Welcome to the podcast.
Michael Belles
William, thanks so much for having me, man. It’s good to see you again.
William Leonard
Yeah, likewise man. I’m really excited for the conversation today. And I want to start the episode with a statistic that I saw on your website. And it said, as of September 2021, only 1.4% of the total $82 trillion of US-based AUM assets under management was managed by diverse-owned firms. That is an amazing statistic, unfortunately, but it sounds like that’s what Catalyze, is looking, for to change. And so let’s talk a little bit more about what Catalyzes maybe give us a broad strokes overview of the program.
Michael Belles
Yeah, that’s a great, great observation. And probably a good place to start is thinking about the problems that we care most about. And you’re right, I’d say the sort of lack of diversity and asset ownership is a key issue. And we think actually one step beyond that when you think about who gets funding for their businesses in the US in particular. And we can talk about equity funding, like venture capital, or even debt funding, like bank loans and other sorts of term loans for small businesses, and everything in between the data, to whatever extent we’re able to understand this data. The data tells a story that black and brown entrepreneurs, female entrepreneurs, people that don’t identify as sort of racial majority, and even people who are outside of kind of like coastal hubs like New York, San Francisco, and Boston, just have a much harder time getting the capital that they need for their businesses. We know that businesses require capital to grow, require capital to scale to innovate, and create more jobs for their communities. And this applies to very small businesses, like Main Street, Mom-and-pop businesses all the way up to the sort of high-scale potential unicorn, billion-dollar tech businesses that a lot of us think about when we think about entrepreneurship. So that problem of access to capital, we think, stems in part from who is distributing the capital and how they’re distributing that capital. And so we have some kind of old-fashioned ways of getting capital into the hands of entrepreneurs in the US. And we also have some entrenched, sort of inherent biases and systems that keep things sort of isolated in many ways, whether that be based on demographics or geography. And so our organization, Catalyze, is a nonprofit, and our mission is to democratize access to capital for diverse and innovative asset managers. We call those capital entrepreneurs essentially thinking and operating like an entrepreneur in that capital allocation seat. And so we think if we can change who and how capital is distributed in the US, we can sort of make meaningful strides toward greater access to capital for entrepreneurs of various types across the US. So that’s the sort of core mission of our nonprofit and some of our programming has all basically evolved from those problems that we see.
William Leonard
You’re right, there is a systematic route that is impacting access to capital at all levels of the capital stack here. And so Catalyze is a relatively newer nonprofit. Tell us a little bit more about the team. You Megan, Brendan, yourselves and what was the Catalyze catalyzing moment for you all to start this nonprofit?
Michael Belles
Yeah, we’re, we’re always weaving in that verb into our vocabulary like being a little self-referential. Catalyze is a newish nonprofit. So we sort of officially got going in 2022. And the three of us my two partners and I, Megan and Brendan, have worked together over the course of several years on a variety of projects. Before spinning out, lodging Catalyze. Independently, we worked together on a project that we called the innovative finance project, which was this grant-funded initiative from the US Economic Development Administration, which essentially funded us to do direct fund support and some kind of research and resource building around what we call innovative capital products. A great example, especially for your audience here in Atlanta is the Collab Capital. Collab has this unique profit share agreement that they call the space. And that’s kind of like the ideal example of one of these innovative capital products that’s neither debt nor equity. It kind of offers a unique upside for entrepreneurs and a difference in the sort of relationship between funder and fundie. We worked on a project where we sort of helped a handful of funds stand up new innovative capital products and provided a lot of research, research, and resources to that field into that industry. In doing so, the three of us learned that providing direct support to investment fund managers, especially with these folks that we think of as capital entrepreneurs, is a sweet spot for us something we really enjoy doing. I think we’re Okay at doing, and also something that’s just kind of highly demanded in the market, there’s not enough people doing. And layer on top of that the folks who we believe sort of deserve and need the sort of high-touch consulting support that we provide, can’t afford to pay for it in most scenarios. And so therein lies the sort of nonprofit nature of our business where we raise grant funding from institutions to go and support these sorts of capital entrepreneurs. Fortunately for us, the grant funders who believe in us and who provide us with support to do this work, tend to believe in the same theory of change that we do, which is that if you change who the asset managers are, how they’re doing it, we can sort of change the capital access ecosystem in the US generally. So that’s kind of how the three of us came together. We have unique backgrounds. I was doing small business lending and a CDFI. Before I joined this project, based out of a private equity fund, where Megan Brendan and I worked together, Megan helped launch that private equity impact investment fund. So she’s been there for a while raising funds and kind of structuring investment funds. Our colleague, Brendan was leading a donor-advised fund from the capital access, it’s called the Capital Assets Lab from the Kauffman and Rockefeller Foundation, and this was a unique fund to funds, which invested in a handful of innovative and interesting funds. Prior to that, he was working in kind of the fun diligence and investment advisory services role at a big firm called Cambridge Associates. Which does a lot of that kind of like institutional due diligence and asset management work for foundations and endowments and big, you know, sort of institutional investors. So, the three of us bring sort of unique backgrounds to this organization together. But we’ve all been working together for a handful of years and have decided this is kind of like the best use of our time and energy right now.
William Leonard
It sounds like this mission has been entrenched in your backgrounds and ideologies for some time now. And, you know, or throughout this podcast thus far, I’ve heard you mentioned the term emerging manager a few times, and I was doing a lot of research and you know, back in the 80s, when this coin when this term was coined, you know, it was really referred to by fund managers with the smaller font size, but I think over time, it’s become synonymous with funds, who were run and operated by women, underrepresented managers, people have raised racial and ethnic minorities. How do you all define what an emerging manager is at Catalyze?
Michael Belles
That’s a great question. And it’s frankly, vocabulary term we, we sometimes try and stay away from, because of the sort of amorphous nature of this term, especially in different sort of like sectors of this industry. For instance, you’ll talk to foundations and endowments and large institutional investors who have emerging manager investment theses, and they’ll invest that they invest with emerging managers. But in their definition, emerging includes up to 4th funds from a manager, at which point, as you’re probably familiar, many of the sort of difficulties that a manager faces in their very first or second investment fund are long since sort of overcome in that scenario, so we tend to somewhat shy away from that term emerging manager. But if we are defining the sorts of fund managers we support, we tend to say first-time underrepresented fund managers, which is specific enough for us to mean, that it’s their first time launching a proper private fund. A lot of times these folks come from an angel investing background, they’re spinning out of another institutional investment firm, maybe they’ve done some investing in some sidecar vehicles or had kind of like a fund zero as folks tend to refer to it. But they’re in the sort of early stages of their first formal investment fund private fund for which they’re raising limited partner capital from outside investors. And then underrepresented for us really, it’s just a statistical observation of the reality of who are the general partners in private investment funds across the country, and which groups are statistically underrepresented based on a relative comparison of their sort of share of the population. So underrepresented for us cuts broadly across issues of race, gender, all sorts of identities, ability, and veteran status, even sort of like the rural-urban divide. And so we try to think about underrepresented being a broadly categorizing way to say, you know, folks who otherwise haven’t broken into this industry, in the aggregate sense, and I mean, reflected, reflected in our participants, historically, an average fund manager who has supported has been a first time solo female black GP, that’s sort of like our, if we’re thinking about who we tend to support, we, we don’t have a specific focus on any particular geographic demographic, or other sorts of identity, but it tends to be that that’s been the majority of the GPs that we get to know fortunately for us,
William Leonard
That’s a great breakdown Michael, and I think it segues perfectly to the next point of some of the programming that Catalyze has, I know you all have this amazing fellowship and, you know, if you’re on LinkedIn, you can follow the Catalyze page and just watch the up to date updates that you all put out about the program as a whole. But many of the challenges that these first-time underrepresented fund managers are facing, it’s it’s never easy to raise capital. Right. But I think in the current macroeconomic environment today, it’s incredibly difficult, especially for that first-time fund manager who maybe doesn’t have the track record or the background, or even the funds to get started. You and I talked about the GP commit, which oftentimes is a barrier for underrepresented founders and emerging managers getting into this space. So tell us a little bit more about the Catalyze fellowship, and how the program practically works to support these emerging managers
Michael Belles
That’s a great question. And I appreciate your framing and sort of like working backward from the problems as well because that’s how we tend to think about the way we support GPs and think about what are the problems. And when I say GP, I mean, General Partner, those are the fund managers of these investment funds. This world is rife with acronyms, and like insider speak. And like I resent the idea that I could be a person who’s using this sort of like insider II vocab. So apologies if I lean into those but our program is designed to support these fund managers in the early days of launching their first fund, and as you alluded to fundraising has to be one of the greatest elements of struggle in the first-time fund manager experience. And it’s for a lot of reasons, frankly, it ought not to be a struggle, because most of the managers that we support are so fantastic. They’re brilliant, they have a unique thesis. But of course, it’s an uphill battle to prove something that you’ve never really done before, at least not done at scale, and to sort of prove your worth and approve your sort of trustworthiness to institutional investors who otherwise are very conservative, and are investing with you out of you know, hard-earned money of theirs theoretically. And so they’re careful, and you have a lot to prove as a first-time fund manager. So our program is designed to support general partners of investment funds in the early days of their first fund. This is an Annual Fellowship Program that we run, It’s free of cost to the general partners, we actually tried to provide some grant capital to the partners who participate to kind of subsidize some of their expenses during the course of their participation. But we tried to get in the weeds with them. We’re not prescriptive, we don’t provide educational content or sort of modular materials. There are other programs that do that for GPs, which are frankly, fantastic. We have nothing but love for the whole world of support that exists for first-time fund managers, especially because frankly, there’s just not enough of us. So it’s a small industry with a much greater demand that is yet to be met. But our program is really bespoke, we take 5 to 10 managers a year, and we act sort of like an outsourced member of their team for six, eight months. We try to provide really careful, thoughtful introductions to limited partner investors where we’re able to we don’t work with the placement agents, so we don’t promise access to investment capital, but we try our best to make careful and thoughtful introductions where possible. And then our team works on a recurring basis with GPs to solve the problems that they’re currently facing. A lot of times this is related to fundraising, they generally tend to circle around the sort of operational business model concerns of an investment fund, that we’re not doing diligence on deals, typically, of course, we’re happy to provide support where we can, but we’re not the venture fund or private equity fund experts. That’s what the GP aspires to be. We are sort of helping with the business model and the essentials of the fund finding and vetting and selecting the funds, and service providers, of which there are many deciding sort of how to triage team energy and costs and the sort of planning for the fund budget. And, the sort of operational workflows in the fund are some of the essential elements that you’ve got to get right in the first six to 12 months of your fund, to be able to have longevity and be able to launch a second fund and kind of build an enduring firm. And so that’s where we see our value being added to the GPs that we support. And it’s kind of what we’ve built our program around. We sometimes bring in experts, outside experts to speak on subjects that we have kind of a lack of familiarity with. And so we have recently brought in fun consultants who consult on specific issues of kind of like software related to deal flow management, or even, we’ve brought back some of our prior fund fellows to talk about their fundraising, successes and failures and kind of bring that kind of real-world wisdom from somebody who was recently in their shoes, in the sort of fundraising in the trenches, essentially. But yeah, typically our program is very bespoke, it’s highly, it’s high touch and kind of one-on-one support between our team and the GPs who participate. And we hope that adds value for them in these kinds of early days where they’re making hard decisions and trying to spend sort of what little money they have, as you mentioned, sort of the cost circumstances are difficult for a first-time manager and it’s a lot of risk for them to take on. And so we try and sort of de-risk the experience as much for them as we’re able to,
William Leonard
His annual six-month fellowship really is unlocking access to capital resources and networks. For these managers. It sounds like you’ve had a few cohorts go through the fellowship thus far. How do you all, as Catalyze define success for this fellowship?
Michael Belles
Man, you describe it so much more succinctly than I did. We got to have you do the pitch instead of me going forward. That’s great! I like that. Success for us looks like a couple of things. It’s fundraising, as you know, for a venture fund or for any sort of private fund, especially a first-time fund is hardly ever linear. But we want to help our GPs fundraise to whatever extent they’re able. And so opening GPs to new sorts of LP connections, facilitating those relationships, and getting their fund, either to a meaningful first close or to a final close, is absolutely a metric of success for us. We also want these GPs to feel like they have concrete answers to some of the sort of thorny and difficult questions that arise in the early days of watching their first fund, to make sure that they have kind of like the networks and the support structures around them. We try and pair up GPs that participate in our programming with fellows for summer fellowships, with interns, or even with kind of like part-time, outsourced staff to mitigate their sort of HR needs in a cost-effective way. So we love seeing teams grow. We love seeing folks. We had some fellows last year, who brought on a couple of summer fellows, and those turned into full-time staff because they were just so great. And the fund managers wanted to keep them around. And so that’s really exciting to see. And, of course, successful deals and successful capital moving to communities, especially to entrepreneurs that otherwise may have been overlooked in one way or another, or for whom the GP has a really unique connection. So we’re excited about that we see, we see a lot of our funds, there’s a great fund manager in our fellowship currently who’s kind of really developed her market thesis in a unique way. And she’s kind of built out a lane, and kind of an identity for her fund. That’s gone through a couple of iterations. And she’s really come up with her kind of competitive angle and her unique and beef. So that’s really exciting for us to support and for us to see, I guess my answer is a long-winded one. But it is to say that we see a lot of successful outcomes for GPs in our program, and if their needs are being met, and if we’re supporting them sort of like progress toward their ultimate goals, then we see that as a win, even if that looks like funds, iterating and changing direction a bit. I think that’s frankly, a necessity and something that we should encourage. We’ve got a great fund manager in our program this year, who recently iterated their fund from one sort of approach to another. And this new approach, in many ways is more efficient. It’s sort of a refined look at the vision that this general partner has. And so that’s a win for us to frankly, sort of like that, that repositioning and then really honing in on an ideal market fit. Yeah, lots of wins. We’re excited about a lot of things that the GPs that we support can accomplish.
William Leonard
That’s so fascinating that you mentioned sort of this pivot that you’ve seen some of the GPs go through. What is how does that pivot practically work out from? Is it like, “Hey, I’m thinking about a particular market this way”. But a macroeconomic change is really helping drive my thesis in this new direction. What are some of the driving forces behind a pivot? And how can an emerging manager first-time fund manager really thoughtfully think about their strategy as a whole?
Michael Belles
That’s a great question. I think some of the successful pivots that we’ve seen, have, for better or for worse been driven by fundraising concerns or funder demands. And you don’t always want to sort of like any entrepreneur who thinks about sort of her business model, and then goes out and pitches, VCs, for instance, you don’t want to change your business model fundamentally, just based on the demands of funding. However, some of the institutional funders who would backed a fund, for instance, have deep and meaningful insights into this market, and have provided our GPs with sort of useful feedback on the way that they could change some of their fund models to attract more funders to get this thing off the ground sooner, and maybe even to kind of take like an MVP approach to a fund. There are a lot of General Partners who have a very ambitious first fund goal. As you probably know, the economics of an investment fund are somewhat unintuitive, especially to the sort of outsider’s perspective, what a $10 million venture fund sounds like a ton of money, but the economics for even one General Partner to run a $10 million fund with the sort of fees and return structure that are our standard for the industry are kind of tough. And so a lot of times, we see GPs kind of pivot in relation to getting something viable off the ground in order to get to that next threshold where the fund 2 might really be, where they’re sort of able to make a sustainable income, make the kind of impact that they want. And the fun one can be sort of the proof of concept can be the sort of like validity for this entrepreneurs, for this fund managers concept. And so, we’ve seen a lot of those useful pivots that I think are really kind of thoughtful and careful approaches from general partners who see the big picture. And that’s the sort of gap we tend to try and support as folks who think far beyond their first fund. We know that if we want to build investment funds, that change the state of our economy, while we love the first fund at 10, 20, or $30 million, we know that the sort of institution that ends up changing the face of capital assets in the US is probably not at that size, it’s probably an order of magnitude or several larger and probably many of those. So we try to support GPs who have this big-picture view of their sort of longer-term impact where their firm is going and see the fund one, as just one of many steps along the way, to building a firm that invests capital in a way that’s meaningful, it’s impactful, that’s got a unique approach. Yeah, I don’t know. Does that answer your question?
William Leonard
It does and that really helps me segue to another point here, right? You all are doing this fellowship annually. Now, I’m sure you’re getting hundreds of applications that come through, you have to really narrow that down to just a few, I think you said six or seven that you’re taking on each year. But within this application process, I’m sure you’re hearing and seeing a lot of feedback from first-time fund managers around preconceived notions of being a fund manager. That may not be true, necessarily. And so what are some of the preconceived notions that you’re hearing and seeing, from your cohorts around barriers to entry around being a fund manager?
Michael Belles
Yeah, great, great question. And to sort of touch on your original point there, we have received so many fantastic applications. We are constrained by our budget and by our team’s capacity, unfortunately, but the hardest part, probably about what we do is having to say no to so many fantastic fund managers who need support for their funds. It only sort of encourages our thinking that many more programs like ours are needed in the US, It kind of feels like what the sort of entrepreneurial accelerator industry was 10 or 20 years ago, when you saw like TechStars and Y Combinator and a handful of accelerators cropping up, but there was so much more sort of latent entrepreneurial demand that could fit into one form of an accelerator or another. And so now we see a handful of programs supporting general partners with their first investment funds. But man, there’s so much demand out there, and so many great fund managers, that, you know, we’d be happy to see 1020 More GP support programs out there, like our supporting various different sorts of partners launching their own funds. So yes, we’re, we’re always thrilled, we’re humbled by the applications we receive. And it’s frankly, super difficult to have to say no to anybody, we have to say no to some of the best funds. And one more note on that is that our team has to be really thoughtful about who we select to participate in our program. Because there are sort of fund managers who would love support but are sort of like inevitably going to be successful, despite our involvement. So that’s like, we wouldn’t be very additive in those situations. And there are some fund managers who need the sort of support that we’re not able to provide, or probably we’re not the best suited to provide. So we have to really select for this kind of narrow band of folks that we think are exciting, inevitably successful, brilliant, which is not hard to pick from, because it’s amazing folks, all sorts of funds all over the US like that, but then also those for whom we think we can actually add value, and we can be additive in those situations. So all that to say, so lucky to have the sort of pipeline of funds that we do. Some of the misconceptions that I see first-time GPs, bringing to the table. One is what you mentioned that you and I discussed recently, which is this sort of idea of GP commit. And a lot of prospective fund managers think when they’ve heard about fundraising and later-stage venture funds. They’ve heard the sort of partners that they’ve worked with are very high net worth, and longtime career investors have to put up a meaningful percentage of the fund in their own capital as a GP commit. That is, for the small first-time fund is hopefully a non sequitur or an unnecessary concern for first-time fund. Many of the sorts of LPs who are investing in first-time funds understand that the GP, him or herself is taking a massive risk and launching his or her own fund, putting their entire livelihood on the line. It is your commitment is more significant than the single digit percentage points of a high net worth, general partner starting his or her sixth fund for instance, a first-time fund manager who’s quitting her job going all in on her first fund to raise $20 million To invest in pre-seed companies in the Midwest, for instance, that is a, he’s committed far more than any sort of single-digit percentage of her net worth. So, the GP commit issue in most scenarios is not a big deal for LPS. And we can work around that, which is great. And it’s just unfortunate that a lot of folks think of that as sort of a stumbling block for a reason they couldn’t start their first fund. And, frankly, individual backgrounds are also kind of like a barrier, a lot of folks think, maybe like, I’ve never received venture capital, or I’ve never received outside capital at a business that I’ve run. And so, therefore, I couldn’t run a fund or I’ve never done sort of like private investing. And so it helps definitely to have an investing track record of some kind, whether at another institution, or from your own sort of like Angel Investing track record, but you’d be surprised by the sort of unique backgrounds that fund managers can bring to the table and the ways that people can supplement their own sort of skill set and understanding. So if you’re not a models person, you’re not a sort of a data junkie, but you do have like a unique insight into a certain business sector or unique sort of style of business or community, for instance, you may be well, well apt to launch a fund of your own. And you can supplement those lacks in your understanding, by part-time staff, by raising sort of bringing together a board of an investment committee, or other supporters who can support you on kind of like an ad hoc basis, mentors, contracted workers. So you don’t have to sort of have expertise in every area of the sort of fund management landscape. And there are programs like ours and several others to sort of support you and your development of those skills. And those programs, frankly, that started an earlier stage for a sort of like would be in prospective fund managers, that can bring you up to date on all the sorts of like general skill set you might need. So hesitance based on sort of lack of skill set or lack of particular insights, I think, is also like, in some ways, a misconception. And then I think another misconception is that you’ve got to be kind of like in one of the primary geographies where venture capital gets talked about, right, like you need to be in New York, you need to be in San Francisco, we see so many amazing GPs, you’re in Atlanta, in St. Louis, in the Midwest, and they had an investing theses that are unique to their community. And that’s what matters, frankly, because there are tons of opportunities in the Midwest if you’re based there, and you know where to look. And maybe you have a different investing approach. Maybe your portfolio model accounts for sort of like fewer unicorn businesses accordingly. But certainly, there are great opportunities everywhere. And you shouldn’t feel like you have to move to San Francisco and pay 10x What you do currently in rent, just to launch a venture fund, You could probably find unique opportunities in your community.
William Leonard
Yeah, I think that’s a really good point about leveraging geography as an advantage. We’re starting to see the emergence of a lot of regionally focused funds. Valley we’re hyper-focused on the Census South, I know funds that are hyper-focused on the Midwest, flyover capital firms like that, as well. So it’s, I think there is an opportunity to find an undiscovered alpha in these undercapitalized areas, for sure, which is a thesis in itself. And obviously, you could have a sub-thesis around that as well. But no, that’s incredibly fascinating, Michael, and, you know, as we wrap up the conversation here, how can a first-time fund manager get in touch with you or someone on a Catalyzed team to learn more about the fellowship and other resources that you offer?
Michael Belles
Yeah, happy to. My email is just Michael, michael@catalyze.community. So anyone listening, please shoot me an email, always happy to talk. I’m based here in Atlanta, I imagine many of the listeners to this podcast are also Atlanta-based, or at least care about Atlanta. So let’s meet up somewhere here in Atlanta, I’m always down for a coffee. But otherwise, you know, we can connect on LinkedIn. We’re trying to sort of publicize our applications annually when we open those. And honestly, it behooves us to kind of just make sure that the emerging manager and first-time manager landscape is just well connected to one another. So wherever we can make introductions, provide recommendations, sort of like pull from our resource repository, to give folks answers to burning questions. We’re always happy to do that. Because the greater the share of the marketplace that first-time managers are able to take up, you know, the greater sort of fundraising potential for our GPs that we support. And frankly, just, the greater the greater visibility that first funds will get when they’re raising funds and when they’re sort of going after investment deals. So we are happy to generally support first-time managers in their experience, whether they participate in our programs or not, especially in Atlanta, which you know, is my home and a place that I have a soft spot for so yeah, please reach out. I’d love to talk to anybody who has questions.
William Leonard
That’s awesome. Yeah, you are definitely a super-connector, Michael. And we really appreciate what you all are doing in the community here regionally and really throughout the country, as well and I’m excited this is a program that is going to we’re gonna look back on this 5, 10, 15 years from now and see the amazing fun ones that came out of Catalyze and I’m excited to have that retrospective picture in mind as well. So Michael, really appreciate your time here, man, and looking forward to seeing how you and the Catalyze team continue to increase access to capital.
Michael Belles
Thanks so much, William. It’s an honor to share this platform with so many people who I admire and look up to in Atlanta. So, and with yourself, of course, William, so I really appreciate the time. And yeah, I hope I hope you’re right. And I hope that a few years from now, we look back on some of the GPs that we supported and they are wildly successful fund managers. And we just hope that they remember us, you know, someday, when they’re when they’re killing it, so yeah, it’s great. Great to be on here. Thanks for talking to me, William. I really appreciate it.
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