William Leonard
Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Atlanta Startup Podcast and Happy New Year as well. We’re thankful that you’re with us for a new episode today featuring the CEO and Founder of PorterLogic. Jonathan Porter. Jonathan is Georgia Tech alumni and is building PorterLogic which is a flexible, low-code supply chain platform, helping operations teams replace spreadsheet-driven processes and connecting disparate systems within their daily operations. We spend time talking about PorterLogics’ quantifiable impacts for some of their earliest clients, the macroeconomic supply chain picture, and how supply chains became so disrupted over the last couple of years. We get Jonathan’s viewpoint on building a startup in Atlanta and we hear from him about the company’s early iterations of customer discovery, and how his time as a consultant informed his vision for building Porter logic. We have a special announcement for all the Pre-Seed Founders out there listening right now. If you missed the last showcase of Startup Runway with 3 founders took home 30,000 non-dilutive grants. After pitching on a stage at the Woodruff Arts Center in Atlanta, you won’t want to miss our next showcase. This is really a tremendous opportunity to meet venture investors. Put your company on a national stage and have the opportunity to win non-dilutive capital for your startup. The next showcase is happening virtually on Thursday, February 23rd. So mark your calendar, and you can learn more and apply at startuprunway.org. Now, let’s jump into today’s episode with Jonathan Porter of PorterLogic. There’s a lot of rich insight to digest from this episode. So let’s delay no further and jump right in. Jonathan, it’s a pleasure to have you on.
Jonathan Porter
Thanks so much for having me excited to be here.
William Leonard
Let’s kick this conversation off by one, getting a brief overview of what PorterLogic is doing, and then two, diving into your background as the CEO and founder of the company. I’ll let you take it away.
Jonathan Porter
Absolutely. At its core, what we do at PorterLogic is help companies streamline their operations and eliminate unnecessary costs, specifically in warehousing, inventory, and fulfillment operations. My background all started in supply chain software. I came out of Georgia Tech. I studied Industrial Engineering, which obviously has a heavy supply chain focus there, and went to a large software provider of warehouse management technology. Manhattan Associates was the name of that company and they’re generally looked at as a kind of market leader in WMS but then they also have transportation and order management. They have kind of a whole suite of software. Even after I left there, I continued to do work in the warehouse management space. It was a lot of very in-depth, on-the-ground experience working with WMS technology. I come from a super entrepreneurial background, though. My dad has owned a construction company for 40 years. His father was a brick mason before that. I had a company in high school and college just like a side business building websites and marketing material for real estate agents. I kind of have always known I would do something like this. It was just getting the timing right. I actually started working for myself back in 2019. Before I started PorterLogic before it was a product, I was just doing contract software development, coding for clients, building websites, applications, and things like that. That was really my first foray into professional entrepreneurship, more than just a side business, I guess. But anyway, I knew I wanted to do a product, too. I’m sure we’ll talk more about the PorterLogic journey but that’s kind of how I got to the doorstep of a product company.
William Leonard
That’s so fascinating. So it sounds like entrepreneurship has been in your blood since day one, coming from a couple of generations of entrepreneurs. And so now, you forayed into this space of software that is enabling warehouse fulfillment operations. Tell us a little bit more about the platform. And then you mentioned, you were working for Manhattan a bit. You started consulting for yourself and then you probably had this aha! moment internally one day. Tell us more about that aha! moment. What were you seeing or not seeing in the market that led you to say, hey, PorterLogic needs to be built now. Let me go do this.
Jonathan Porter
I would say that magical aha! moment is a long drawn-out process. So it was not necessarily just an overnight thing. Once I made the decision that I wanted to do a product company, where I really got started was a lot of boots-on-the-ground customer discovery. I had joined ATDC’s Educate program at the time. I had started learning a ton about lean startups, Steve Blank, Eric Ries, and all of these kinds of legends in the space. Really just started talking to people. I mean, I knew I wanted to do supply chain but that was as broad as it was. I would reach out to anybody that would take my call in my network, and ask them, what is the biggest problem they see in supply chain software. And then I took meticulous notes and tracked every problem that somebody was talking about, and through that, I found that in about 65% of the conversations I had, people were talking about this problem that I was also seeing that I wanted to solve. I mean, that’s part of PorterLogic, the problem we really solve in itself I had personally seen and experienced throughout my time consulting and working with clients. I was constantly facing clients asking me, could we do this? Could we do that? A client has a problem but there was no real effective way to solve that when you put that in a supply chain software setting. Systems were often customized or there was lots of manual workaround processes. I had experienced that personally. I started hearing a lot of people also talking about this problem. And so that is really kind of where I got onto this train of, we need to solve this. Quick story, the immediateness of when I started it actually was really, really early. I got introduced to an investor through a personal connection and pitched to him. I mean, this was before I built anything. I mean, it was super, super early. It was too early for him at the time but the comment coming out of that was he said, “Don’t get distracted, you need to build this.” He was previously in the supply chain and had known the space. Literally the next day, I started coding. I mean, that was kind of the precipice. Okay, if somebody in that kind of a position also can see it, there may be something here. Two years later, it’s been a journey.
William Leonard
I’m glad you touched on this. Customer discovery is one of the early mountains that a founder must climb. And so I really want to dig into this a bit more. You started with cold outreach, I think you probably met with probably dozens or even hundreds of individuals. You did a lot of synthesizing of the insights that they shared with you and you decided to focus on this core problem here. What other tactics when you were doing this customer discovery? What worked? What didn’t work? And what were some of the things you said, “Hey, I’ve tried this strategy, let’s deviate from it, and let’s go back to what’s working now.”
Jonathan Porter
Great question. One of the first books I actually read was called The Mom Test. I’m blanking on the name of the person, but I’m sure you can just easily Google The Mom Test and it will come up. That book, it’s a super quick, easy read, but it really teaches you how to start asking questions to get unbiased feedback, because that’s one of the things that even when I was being conscious of it early on, is so easy to get people that are friends or family or anybody that are just saying, oh, that’s a great idea, right? That is absolutely not the kind of feedback you need. You need to be able to get really interesting data points from people that know what they’re talking about. Being able to ask questions in such a way that you’re not leading the witness that you’re really leaving it more open-ended, and kind of hearing what they’re saying. I mean, I think that’s another thing early on. You have the fledglings of an idea and you want it to work, right? So you can very easily start projecting that onto the data you’re hearing. You hear somebody say something and you almost hear what you want to hear. I would say broadly that that’s one of the most important things early is to really hear what these people are saying. Because at the end of the day, the idea that I started out is vastly different from where PorterLogic is today. But you know, we’re trying to listen to the market. We’re trying to listen to customers because customers are really what matters, right? I mean, if people aren’t paying you for this, you could be a nonprofit or do be doing something else. But most startups are looking to have financial gain.
William Leonard
That makes a lot of sense. The Mom Test is by Rob Fitzpatrick. Definitely going to recommend reading that. I’ve read it as well. Very strong, quick read, that has so many robust insights about just conversations and talking with people we want to impact. You were boots on the ground, talking with customers, and you ultimately started coding after you got some validation from an investor. And so now, PorterLogic, tells us more about the product in action and how it works within a customer’s environment.
Jonathan Porter
What we’re doing, as I kind of mentioned at the beginning, is we’re helping companies streamline, streamline operations, and make things more efficient. We’re doing that by building applications for clients and customers using our low-code application platform. So that’s really the proprietary tech that we’ve built is this low code platform that you can build supply chain tools on top of, whether it’s a warehouse management, whether it’s an ERP returns management, there’s a number of different supply chain applications that customers need to operate their fulfillment. That’s what we allow you to build on top of our platform. The easiest way to explain why we’re so different though is to give you an example of one of the customers we implemented because there is a huge plethora of supply chain systems out there. I mean, there are probably millions of inventory and warehouse systems out there. For a customer that we’ve done, we built an inventory management system. But what they really needed, they are a retailer. They’re selling goods online, through e-commerce, and all of their fulfillment is through third parties. 3PLs, third-party logistics providers, and they had ten of those partners doing all of their fulfillment across the country. They came to us saying, we need a better way to manage our inventory, but really, they needed a way to not gather inventory data, as well as then visualize and even more so than that action on that data. Part of our technology is an integration component. We’re going out and pulling data from all these different sources across company lines. We’re reaching out to their partner systems, some of them via APIs, we process inbound emails like there’s a whole portion of it that’s getting data in. Then on top of that, you can build user interfaces and you can build visualizations and ways for users to then interact with that data. That’s then really, the way they see it is it’s their inventory management system. They’re logging in, they’re looking at inventory by warehouse, global inventory. They’re drilling down into kits and the components that go into those kits. They’re seeing all these different views of inventory but it’s all automated and it was all manual. A lot of times when we’re talking to customers, we’re talking about things like, do you have processes in Excel? Are you using spreadsheets to manage inventory because that’s kind of the way that it expresses itself this problem? That’s how a lot of clients kind of feel it most acutely. We’re then able to go in and then build systems around the way they work. It’s not just, here’s a static integration system, and here’s a static Inventory Management System. Everything’s built-in low code. Everything’s built around workflows. It’s much faster, much quicker, and much easier to get set up. I can go on all day but I’ll stop there.
William Leonard
I mean, it makes a lot of sense when you think about why we’re having a lot of the supply chain problems today, because of these processes being so manual, Excel-based, they’re in spreadsheets. I like how this software is digitizing a lot of the operations and workflows for your customers. You mentioned e-commerce retailers are early customers that you’ve been able to make quantifiable impacts within. Tell us more about the types of customers that PorterLogic is best suited for.
Jonathan Porter
We go after a mid-market company, generally anywhere from about 25 million in annual revenue up to about 500 million in annual revenue. Oftentimes, it’s specific industries like food and beverage, maybe it’s certain retailers, but it’s also distributors and manufacturers. Really, it’s anybody that is shipping a physical good, that has some level of uniqueness around the way that they’re wanting to ship. So that customer I was talking about, for example, everything that they’re doing is kits of food, so they store component-level inventory. And then when a customer orders, they build it into a finished kit. And then that’s what they sell on. Some of their uniqueness came because they wanted to report on finished kits but then they had component-level inventory at all of their partners. There are a lot of kind of behind-the-scenes calculations that we’re doing to report this final number to them. That’s where a lot of times we’re going to help customers something that you would have been doing manually. You can now build a workflow around it. Food and Bev are big, just because there’s a lot of inherent uniqueness around that. There are food regulations and temperature zones, and just things that you’ve kind of had to take into account there. We really like the middle market right now. We do have long-term aspirations to move more of the market. But the mid-market is very underserved from a software perspective. I mean, you have kind of the SMB, call it the Shopify’s of the world which are great when you’re early, you’re getting started out, and they can scale to a certain point. And then you have the enterprise level, you have the Manhattans and the Blue Yonders and the SAPs of the world but those are millions of dollars and years of implementation. And there’s this hearty, middle section of companies that needs a lot of that complexity that an enterprise system would deliver, but they can’t pay that. Frankly, time is the bigger thing. Our customers talk about the speed that we implement at that we measure implementations in weeks, not years is like a huge differentiator. We can very, very quickly have functionality up and running. This is purely an example but it’s a good way to wrap your head around it. Think about when COVID first hit and overnight, companies needed some way to do curbside delivery, because we couldn’t go into stores. Now, if it had been 2019 and you’d been an operations manager and proposed a curbside delivery system, you probably would have been laughed out of the room, right? Nobody was thinking about that. But overnight, something changed that you didn’t have control over and you needed to very quickly be able to stand up some new technology function to do something. That’s the kind of thing that PorterLogic is really, really good at, whereas other systems maybe take longer to implement.
William Leonard
That makes a lot of sense. I want to frame my next question around that because you’ve been building PorterLogics for a couple of years now. I’d say these last two years have probably been some of the most abnormal years ever known to mankind. So in this timeframe, how have you seen global supply chains evolve, and in tandem, how has that impacted your approach to building PorterLogic?
Jonathan Porter
These last couple of years have been tough for the supply chain overall. We’ve all kind of felt it acutely when we couldn’t get toilet paper and proteins at the grocery store and things like that. I would say that there’s no question, the pandemic has thrown this industry forward by 5, or 10 years, probably. I mean, I think that there was a lot of digitization going on, but you have to kind of put it into context, especially since a lot of what we do is warehousing and fulfillment base. I talk a lot about the warehousing side of things. But a WMS to a fulfillment operation is absolutely mission-critical. I mean, if it goes down for just a couple of hours, you could miss huge numbers of shipments and lose out on revenue and have to refund customers for late deliveries. In a way, it’s similar to hearing about airlines, that their algorithms and pricing, and everything still runs on servers from like the 80s. I mean, it’s kind of the same way in the supply chain that you have systems that are older technology and have just been around for a while because they work. When I was a consultant, we were upgrading a system that was put in in 2004/2005 and that was in 2017/2018. You have systems that were put in a long time ago and built a long time ago, too. Anyway, I bring all that up, just because it has really thrown the industry forward from a technology standpoint, companies have had to adapt. I mean, there’s just no option anymore. You either go out of business, or you figure out a way to adapt. I think that it’s been up and down for sure. I’m a huge supply chain nerd. It’s a perfect example of the bullwhip effect. The bullwhip effect is this concept that talks about a small change on the consumer side, as you work your way back up the supply chain ends up in these major swings in demand. If you have a 10x demand change on the customer side, it multiplies exponentially as you go further up, because of things like lead times and minimum order quantities. If you’re ordering from offshore and it has to sit on a boat for 40 days, then you have to order a lot or order a whole container or something like that. It’s been really fascinating to see it play out because at first, nobody had inventory, right? You couldn’t keep anything. Now, we’re seeing almost the exact opposite. Companies have way too much inventory but it’s the wrong stuff. That’s the challenge. You’re seeing retailers discount huge amounts of goods because it’s not what people are buying right now but it’s what they’re stuck with. It’s been a fascinating time. No question.
William Leonard
I definitely want to dive into more of your perspective and predictions later on in the conversation, but you mentioned something. You said companies are forced to adapt quickly. A couple of years ago, we still hear to this day the term adapt or die. Companies were literally dying because they were too slow to adapt to where consumers were moving to. I want to shift the conversation here a bit, Jonathan, to more of the company-building lens. You touched on your previous life as a consultant. I would love to hear your reflections on how previous experiences with Manhattan and then ultimately, consulting for yourself have informed your vision for now building PorterLogic today.
Jonathan Porter
I would say that it’s a classic kind of example, in a way. It’s something I personally experienced, right? I feel like you hear that a lot and it’s easier to think about it from a consumer kind of perspective, right? Think about an Airbnb or something. When those founders, talk about the experience to having needing to rent out a room or rent out a bed. It’s true even in the B2B space. I felt this pain. I was in front of clients, and they would ask me, I mean, I alluded to it earlier, but they’ve asked me, “Hey, can we ship this way? Can we do this particular thing?” A great kind concrete example. Warehouse clubs, like Costco and Sam’s, often have really specific requirements around how you ship to them. It’s something that most consumers probably aren’t really aware of but the brands that are selling through Costco have to pre-package and kit together items into multipacks, and things like that, so that they can sell them at Costco. I bring that up just because that’s the type of thing that is not usually handled super well in a package off-the-shelf system but that is an extremely nuanced example. How in the world would you ever really have an appreciation for that, except for I was the one who wrote the 2000 line database trigger that was this hacky solution to a kind of make it work because, at the time, we didn’t have a better way to do it. That kind of brings it back around to your question of, if I had had PorterLogic when I was a consultant, I would have loved it. I really built it with that implementation person in mind, whether it’s a third-party consultant, whether it’s an internal IT team, whether it’s even an internal operations team, or somebody that’s maybe more tech-savvy and wants to build for themselves and things like that, but I dreamed of having something that was this simple, intuitive, and easy. Had to be in the weeds of it, though. Not gonna sit back and say that I always at the moment realized how valuable it was. I was traveling a huge amount early in my career and got pretty burnt out on it but you look back and reflect, it’s extremely valuable to have been on the ground and seeing these types of clients and learning about what’s going on to then be able to deliver a solution like this.
William Leonard
I think you’re someone investors would label as an experienced-based founder who is building from years of doing a process manually, and now has the unique, firsthand insights to turn this process into a product now. That’s fascinating. You mentioned that you went to Georgia Tech. Are you from Atlanta? Did you grow up here?
Jonathan Porter
Originally from Atlanta. I’m one of the few natives that have stuck around, I guess. I want to say I’m like a fifth or sixth generation, actually from just outside Atlanta. My family is from the Tucker area. I went to Georgia Tech. My brother went to Georgia Tech. My dad teaches at Georgia Tech. We’re very much a Tech family.
William Leonard
Building outside of Atlanta, it didn’t really cross your mind, or did it?
Jonathan Porter
I was always gonna stick around Atlanta. There’s a huge supply chain community here in Atlanta. Some of that’s based on just the fact that big corporates like UPS are here but there’s a huge amount of supply chain that happens here in Atlanta. Manhattan Associates is in Atlanta. One of the people that I really look up to is the founder of Shopify, Toby Lütke, speaking and his podcast. He talks a lot about how they built outside of a traditional startup city and that it was a huge advantage. I feel so similarly about Atlanta because I mean, we don’t have to compete with the valley, California, or even Boston, New York, some of these really, really traditional hubs. We have a huge amount of talent here. Georgia Tech is right here, but all the other great institutions around, and then you just lay right on top of Atlanta is an awesome city. We were chatting just before this about the BeltLine and how much activity there is happening here. It really has the right mix and then take into account that the tech scene here has been growing. In the last couple of years come into it, but I mean, you hear a buzz and people are talking about it a lot. You get in these entrepreneurship circles and it’s amazing to hear the energy behind Atlanta. For so many reasons, I think Atlanta is a great place to be building. The southeast is growing from a technology, venture, and startup perspective. I was just talking with one of our main connections over at ATDC and they mentioned they were at a conference recently, and somebody said that San Francisco, Boston, and New York are some of the top-tier places, but Atlanta is a solid, next one right after that in terms of investments, startups, and entrepreneurship. There’s a lot happening in Atlanta. I can’t talk enough about it. It’s a great place to be.
William Leonard
I agree. You touched on a lot of the supply chain organizations that are here UPS, Delta, you think about the rail lines, the Port of Savannah. We just saw Plug And Play.
Jonathan Porter
We were down there for their launch event. Last summer I think it was.
William Leonard
There’s so much activity happening here and then you also think about Augusta and other satellite hubs within Georgia. You got Columbus, which is super close to the Gulf of Mexico. There’s a lot of momentum happening here in the city and at the state level as well. And you also touched on startup resources like ATDC. Did you all go through ATDC as a program?
Jonathan Porter
I did the Educate program early on. We’re an Accelerate company now. I can’t talk about enough good things about ATDC. When I decided to start working for myself, I was one of those naive technical founders that said, oh, I can build a product in a couple of months, people are gonna buy it, it’s gonna be no big deal. That Educate program really set me straight in a way and showed me there is a much deeper process. You really have to take the time to uncover and work at it. It’s not just gonna come to you. Now, from an Accelerate perspective, there are so many resources that we get through the program. Even just real specific things like HubSpot for Startups, because we were part of ATDC, we get 90% off HubSpot subscriptions. Not only is it great coaching, amazing connections, and mentorship, but then real tangible things to a bootstrap startup. A lot of differences but there are also a ton of startup resources out there. I mean, there are a lot of amazing communities, I hear a lot of good things about ATV. I know there’s just so much a lot of a lot happening all over. I highly encourage people to take advantage of all that. It’s hard enough to build a startup. I take advantage of any and every program possible.
William Leonard
I agree 100%. As we begin to wrap this conversation up, Jonathan, you touched on how the supply chain problems have persisted. First, it was we couldn’t get the necessary supplies that we needed. And then it became we had too much inventory on the shelves of the wrong things. These supply chain problems have persisted for some time now and I want to get your perspective on how do they get so bad? What are the technologies and innovations that are actually going to solve these problems that we’ve seen and hopefully, won’t see again for the foreseeable future?
Jonathan Porter
That’s a great question. It did get bad quickly through the last couple of years. There’s no doubt about that. I think that a lot of it was really such a perfect storm of just the way that demand hit right at the time that so much of the transportation shut down. I remember at the time, there was not many people had a concept of how much freight moved on commercial airlines, that was actually a pretty common way that freight moved air that a Delta passenger plane was selling cargo space = underneath. When you had that dramatic fall off in commercial travel, the freight network was just as negatively impacted because there was 50% less air capacity. All of a sudden, all that capacity went to truck or rail or something else. It really was a perfect storm of a lot of different things. Moving forward and looking to the future, there’s hope in the sense everybody does realize how critical the supply chain is and how much they need flexibility there really is. I think that for a long time, it had very much been focused on cost-cutting, and even at the expense of lead times, offshoring was a big trend. You were able to kind of make it all work because you could have lots of shipments flowing in just in time. The joke I kept hearing was it’s no longer just in time, it’s just in case because we couldn’t get inventory for so long, right? But I think that that is this whole experience for the supply chain operations team has shown us that we need to be able to adapt faster. There is a huge number of technologies coming in. One of the ones that I find super fascinating is AMRs, autonomous mobile robots. Robotics and automation in warehousing and supply chain have been around for 15 or 20 years but normally what that looks like are these, for example, a massive sorter, an automatic sorter, and by massive, I’m talking like the size of a football field. These are huge implementations to require months if not years of system integrations and massive capital expenditure. Now, you have companies like Locus Robotics. There are a number of them that are coming out with these individualized, small robotic components that can move around a warehouse. You don’t have to change your whole physical footprint, you can just kind of plug them into an existing operation, they can introduce the same efficiency gains that you get with traditional automation but I’m pretty sure not all of them do but a lot of them are like subscription-based so it’s not this massive capital expenditure. You’re just paying a monthly or quarterly or whatever kind of subscription for it. I think that just the proliferation in automation and specifically around these new, innovative types of automation. You’re having drones in warehouses, do cycle counts, and do inventory counts. Drones are just flying up and down, so it’s really going to be cool to see the way that technology and automated tools continue to work their way into fulfillment.
William Leonard
Do you think that at scale, largely, that technology drones and robots will replace people in warehouses and supply chain environments?
Jonathan Porter
It will replace certain jobs, maybe. But I definitely don’t think that humans are going to forever be removed from the equation. You know, if nothing else, all of those systems require a huge number of support teams and people to kind of keep them up and running. But there are also just certain tasks that humans are better at. So things like when you’re trying out a new process, or maybe you’re introducing a new product line, and it requires a new type of packaging. That’s something that humans are going to be much easier at and maybe you’ll automate it down the road, but there’s always going to be a place for people in the operation. We talk about automating spreadsheets, but we actually tell the story to companies of spreadsheets are the right place to start. I mean, when you’re first trying something out, do it nonscalable. Do it quick and dirty, and just see if it’s even going to work back to our customer discovery conversation. I mean, try it first, do your MVP, then automate, then build out the full-fledged process. I think people are gonna always be around, but it’ll be for the best overall. I don’t think that anybody loves palling huge boxes around the warehouse all day, right? Let the robots automate that and let’s do the part that is better for the humans to be doing.
William Leonard
That’s a great perspective, Jonathan. This was a really fun conversation to have. I appreciate you joining me and sharing insights about your entrepreneurial journey, how PorterLogic is impacting the bottom line for your clients, and your thoughts on Atlanta’s ecosystem here. We have a lot of listeners here. How can someone get in touch with you who heard this conversation today and who wants to try out or test your software?
Jonathan Porter
Thanks for having me, man. It’s been a great conversation. I love talking about this, as you can tell, so find me on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active there. https://www.porterlogic.com/ is the website. You can kind of get in touch with us there. Jonathan Porter on LinkedIn. Love to hear from people. I’m a super nerd about this stuff. I’ll talk to anybody about warehousing and supply chain systems.
William Leonard
Awesome. Jonathan, I appreciate you joining me today, man. Cheers.
Jonathan Porter
Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Lisa Calhoun
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