William Leonard
Despite a challenging economic year for many industries, funding for climate tech startups grew 89% year over year in 2022, to reach just over $70 billion. In this episode, we get heavy into the world of climate tech software, more specifically, platforms providing mobility infrastructure at the government and enterprise level with our guest, Thomas Stokell, who is the CEO of Love To Ride., which is Valor’s newest investment. Thomas is no stranger to building startups or the world of mobility. And he sheds light on his thought process for building software with behavioral change at its core, bootstrapping love to ride to $2 million in revenue, and his approach to building and scaling a globally distributed team at the seed stage. And coming up in Atlanta, our team is excited about the 20th showcase of Startup Runway, which is an opportunity for three founders across the southeast to win non-dilutive capital for their startups. This event is happening May 4th, 2023 at 3 pm at the Russell Innovation Center for entrepreneurs, visit startuprunway.org to apply and register and find out more details. Now back to today’s episode. Thomas, welcome to the podcast.
Thomas Stokell
Thank you, William. Thanks for having me on the show.
William Leonard
I’m really excited because you are one of Valor’s newest investments. I think we’ll talk about that a little bit later in the episode. But I’m really just excited about what you’re building at Love To Ride. So maybe we can start there with a brief overview of what the company does. And then you have such a fascinating background. I would love for our listeners to learn more about the Thomas Stokell story.
Thomas Stokell
Thanks, William. So Love To Ride is the platform that governments and businesses used to get more people riding bikes. So we work in seven countries around the world and have over 600,000 riders on our platform. Behavior change is really at the core of the platform and our whole approach. So my background is in Behavior Change And Psychology, applying that to transportation, changing behavior, terrible behavior, and getting people out of cars and onto bikes. We have a lot of experience in that with all that knowledge into this platform and into this new app that we’re building to help our customers ultimately be successful at achieving their climate goals, their sustainability goals, their health care, staff engagement, and wellness goals. We’re really lucky with biking that we can take a number of boxes and get budget and revenue from a number of different sources, both in government from sustainability to transportation to health. Same on the corporate side, different budget holders within companies can be customers of our business. We’re very lucky. Background on story-wise, how did I get into biking and technology? Well, after I finished high school, I took a gap year and that was a good idea. Worked at a lot of different companies, tried a bunch of different industries out, traveled a bit, and ultimately got prepared to put my nose to the grindstone again and study in college a year later. But one of the companies I worked for was actually a government agency doing behavior change. They were doing things like encouraging people to quit smoking, encouraging people to eat more healthfully, encouraging people to put sunscreen on and we have a big skin cancer problem in New Zealand. We need people to have healthy behavior around being smart in the sun, wearing a hat, etc., and that really helped me cut my teeth and get my skills up in that area. They kind of quickly realized I had a bit of a brain. So before I even started college, they said, “Hey, do you want to organize National Bike Week?” They knew I was into bike riding and gave me that opportunity and I ran for it. We did a good job of launching that and continuing that program in New Zealand. I launched, as part of that, a workplace-based biking challenge and that was kind of the first product we developed to do that mode shift to get people on bikes out of cars. That was a little while ago and over the years since then, I’ve obviously done a variety of things from working in transportation as a consultant to working for the government to some other startups. One of the things that we did, was I had another startup in the transportation tech space. We specialize in these sorts of workplace challenges. And then in 2013, I took a year off and traveled. I lived in Amsterdam and the Netherlands for a while and had no wife and no kids at that point. I was footloose and fancy-free. I think she was moving back to New Zealand from the UK for a bit in the last five years. I came up with the concept of fluff terrain, which was a year-round platform that would apply all the things that we’ve learned over the years about behavior change, biking, and transportation and bake it into a platform that could really help our clients and solve all their problems, give them the data they needed, give them the measurable results they needed, etc. That’s when Love To Ride was born in 2014. We’ve bootstrapped it since then up to 2 million in revenue and obviously did our seed round a little later than other folks. But we are proof that we have a real business and a real product market fit and are ready for some capital to truly grow the business and realize the opportunity ahead of us.
William Leonard
That’s right. It sounds like biking has been embedded in your blood since you were a teenager and you studied behavioral change, now you apply that to transportation and it’s at the core of the Love To Ride platform. You’re targeting government entities, organizations, and businesses of all sizes, I believe with this platform. So tell us a little bit more about how it works and the inner workings of Love To Ride as a whole.
Thomas Stokell
Sure. So just on the customer side, most of our customers at the moment are government entities of different sizes across the whole country to departments like the Department of Transportation in New Zealand, we were at the state level, we work at the local level, we work in some tiny towns and counties, Shasta County in California. We can work with all those different governments. We also work with businesses, and thankfully, it’s a similar product experience. We’re not having to like create a new product, we just have to open up our marketing and sales to a new market. Once that customer is on board, it’s a similar experience for the writer and for the customer. We’re really lucky in that. Size-wise, on the corporate side, we work with some massive global companies, with Facebook, and we’re talking with Ford Europe at the moment about a big deal there. We’ve got a SASS platform. I get emails every day with $125 deals of some little five-person company signing up to our platform to a $5,000 plan or whatever just signed up. It’s cool, man. It’s great to see it working. From my experience perspective, as both a writer and a customer, once a customer comes on board, they get access to our platform, or their staff or their community get access to our platform. We have seasonal campaigns that we deploy with them across the hemispheres. Obviously, the northern hemisphere has a similar season, we do a spring campaign, getting people back on their bikes, we do a Mayor’s Bike Month big campaign with workplaces, and we do a full campaign. That’s largely about encouraging people to get out and ride during the summer, maybe just for short, maybe just recreationally and that campaign was started to get them to think about biking to work and biking for transportation. And then we do a winter campaign to continue to support and encourage people to overcome any barriers they have to ride in winter, and then it repeats again. The platform delivers those campaigns for us, which obviously allows people to set goals and achieve badges and see their stats and measure their progress, connect with friends be supportive of each other. We’ve got a Hi-Fi feature, which is I guess similar to a live or stories feature, all that good social stuff. And then of course, our customers get to see all the great stats and data and the measurable impact. We’re getting them reports and dashboards so they can show to their bosses and ultimately, their funders, the impact that the Love To Ride program is having in their organization.
William Leonard
If you talk about these statistics, the overall impact, and the measurable data that the platform is collecting. I think you’re at several 100,000 riders on the platform, over millions of rides have been facilitated on the platform, talk to us a little bit about the overview and how you all have been able to impact the climate change goals of some of your customers. Outcomes, percentages of employees writing, things like that, how are you all tracking this? What are some success stories from the existing customer base?
Thomas Stokell
There are a number of ways that we support our customers on the climate side specifically. So first of all, like achieving behavioral change, so we apply behavior change theory to achieve measurable results. Secondly, we’re supporting, particularly our government clients with data on where people are writing and how safe and comfortable they feel on different routes in their city or community. That data is then used to help them spend the money they have for bike lanes, etc, most efficiently to have the most impact of improving the biking environment. Ultimately, though, we are, especially with the new app that we’re launching, the impact of biking that it has on the world currently is not like all those bike trips. Billions of bike trips a year, right? That impact is not being measured right now. If you think about measurement and biking, people typically think of something like Strava, you have to get out your phone, open the app, press start, ride your bike, get off your bike, park your bike, lock your bike, open your phone up in the app, press stop. You do that for a longer training ride. I’m doing a 50-mile ride, I’m going to log that on Strava. But if you’re logging, if you go 1.2 miles down to studio Plex to the cafe or to meet with someone, you’re not going to track that, right? So all those short trips or the impact that biking has is not currently being measured. Our new app is basically Fitbit for biking. Before Fitbit, some people wore a pedometer on their belts in the morning and so all the impacts of steps weren’t being measured. That’s basically where biking data is at right now. It’s in 2007 before Fitbit but it takes work to track these rides. We’re making it passive automatic and so we are measuring the impact, we’re aggregating it, we’re anonymizing it, we’re utilizing it, and ultimately, we’re monetizing it. In terms of the actual behavioral change that we achieve, our average is about 31% of new riders start riding regularly after three months. And then about 20 to 30% of people who aren’t riding for transportation; may ride recreationally, may ride not at all, take up riding for transportation, and include riding to work. That’s typically measured after three months, that’s kind of our sort of follow-up survey that we do the initial one. The cool thing about a new app is that we won’t have to rely on surveys, which is basically what the whole transportation industry has relied on. In the last two weeks, how often have you driven to work? One day a week, two days a week, three days a week? So it’s the best we’ve had to measure behavior and with this passive tracking technology, it’s really going to change the game about measuring the impact of different approaches, measuring the impact of different programs, not just our own programs, but what our customers want to try out. If you’re a city and you want to try out an e-bike rental scheme, or loan bike scheme where you rent people that e-bike for a month, what impact does that have? By using our app, we can see exactly the changes in that person’s travel behavior during the month they have the bike. After that, a year later, we can still check how their behavior has been impacted by an approach. So really excited by the potential of the technology that we’re building and that this investment from Valor is helping us enable and complete the build-off.
William Leonard
The value prop is really the modernization of collecting bike data and enabling your customers, both businesses and government organizations, to track benchmarks and work towards their climate goals. So really interesting approach here, Thomas, and I want to shift the conversation a bit more. One of the things that made this investment rather attractive to our team was that you were able to grow Love To Ride rather efficiently in an organic fashion. We’d love for you to share with some of our listeners, many of who are early-stage founders, share with them some of the levers that you were pulling as the founder during this early stage of the company to achieve this type of efficient and organic growth.
Thomas Stokell
I mean, the first thing is just plain hustle. You gotta work. I was lucky enough to start growing this company before I had any kids. The hard work thing is a real deal, naturally, you got to work smart, too, right? Asking the question, what’s the best use of my time right now being well organized and focused? As much as it is important to focus on doing something, you got to be aware of what you shouldn’t be doing right now. You got to give some stuff up. That focus and then that straight, hard work, I mean, frugality came in. Once you raise a bit of money, things might change a little bit, obviously, because you got more money to deploy. But that’s my theme, man, I’m pretty tight. Because leveraging every dollar, even that 2 million in revenue, like we were leveraging it. It’s good to have money to spend more money on marketing and obviously, when we were growing and building our tech, that was the main thing. We were reinvesting all our retained earnings and profit. Being frugal, working hard, being focused, getting good advice, not paying much or too much for that advice, and getting genuine people who want to help you and support you on the team. Those things take time. Having a sense of urgency is really good and you should have that. But if you look at how slowly some companies have grown or changed a market, like a friend of mine, Tim Norton, he was getting into the online accounting space ages ago, 2004 kind of situation, just a million years ago, and thought that within a couple of years, the big players would flip over to having things in the cloud. It wasn’t until Xero came along, ages later QuickBooks like like probably a decade later. QuickBooks launched their cloud version of what he had started building a decade before then, so he just thought it was going to be game over before then. But these things take time. Probably raise money a bit earlier than I did. I would say there’s a lot of value in going through and getting investment on all levels, right? It validates your idea that you’ve got a good idea and that you should be spending your own time and it doesn’t say if no one backs you, you should stop doing it. Good sense testing of what you’re working on. There are lots of other things I could probably talk about.
William Leonard
No, those are really great insights. You briefly touched on your team and it seems like a lot of your team is distributed across continents right now. And so obviously, we’re in the world of post-pandemic where being distributed is natural. It’s second nature. So tell us more about some of the tips and tricks and learning lessons that you had of building in hiring and collaborating with a distributed team across multiple time zones, geographies, and cultural boundaries, as well.
Thomas Stokell
The main thing, I’d say is to be human. People are people, be real, be authentic connecting over Zoom or whatever video conferencing of choice. It can be difficult. We’re missing a bit. You get a lot from the video, but you don’t get everything so you had to really make sure you’re taking the time to try and connect with people genuinely, bake in some social time into your meetings to check in with people a few more minutes at the beginning of a meeting to have a human connection and check-in, make the rest of the meeting and conversations you have and getting agreement or asking people to do something difficult will be easier if you are more connected with them. And of course, getting together in person when you can can also be really helpful and beneficial. We’ve always had a sort of retreat. I pretty much grew up in the startup world fully remote. My business partner, Tim Norton, again, got us on Google Docs way early and it was my first business and got us on Skype, that was the thing at the time. I’ve grown up with our first employee in a different city and I think there’s a lot of value, like, most of our staff are in the UK and most of them are in a city like Bristol. They benefit from office culture and all that. We often come and meet at the Bristol office and get that face time there but be conscious about your culture with your team, like what is it that makes working for you and your company special or unique? Or what do they want to see, how do they want to see that culture grow? When you raise a bit of money, you hire more staff, and it can be very easy to bring people on who aren’t on board into the culture and then you lose your culture. It’s really important, like we’re doing an exercise or started doing it before we even close that round on like defining that culture. Because if you lose your culture, it can get really slippery, real quick. Culture can be the glue that not only brings you together but makes you successful. Being conscious about what is your culture? What are your values? What do you want to instill? Every industry is a bit different, every entrepreneur and every team of people coming together is a bit different, and there’s no real, true blueprint. It’s what’s important to you and your business. That’s gonna determine that ideal culture.
William Leonard
We hear that and really talk about it with our portfolio companies because you’re at this early seed stage, you have to establish a culture and iterate on that culture. Culture is going to change as you make hires and people leave the company. I think that’s there and you talked about timing as well, earlier, right? As you reflect and think about cities in the US historically, they have been pretty siloed and disconnected with mainly the only focal point connecting the neighborhood has been mass transit systems which have only worked in a handful of cities here in the US. As you think about the timing and the readiness of biking and other forms of micro-mobility coming to the US, what are your thoughts on the country being ready to widely adopt micro-mobility practices?
Thomas Stokell
Timing is interesting. There are three major global trends. So there might be things in the short term and the mid-term like scooters coming into cities and Bike Share and stuff, that went up and has gone down a little bit since its peak, obviously. Those little bumps in the road when you consider the timeline of these global trends, so think climate change, sustainability, massive long-term trend, health, public health, getting people active and fit and living longer and helping overcome all these hugely expensive illnesses, diabetes, and heart disease, etc, and cancer. The other big trend is the need for data. All the city organizations, you can’t get away with not having data. We’re well positioned, shall I say, rather than lucky that we are helping where those major global trends are on our side of the business, and they’re going to support its growth. There are going to be some bumps in the road and some ups and some downs. There are also some historic headwinds, as you’ve pointed out with transit not being as successful in many cities in the US. There are obviously some exceptions to that, but transits had a bit of a tougher time here than in, say, Europe or some of the other parts of the world?
William Leonard
What do you think that is?
Thomas Stokell
I think part of the problem is just straight urban design. You look at a city like Amsterdam, the density, people are living in a high-density area to a lot of people are living in a square mile. You compare that to a suburb here in America, which is a massive suburban population area. If I think about putting a tram or a bus down in Amsterdam with the thousands and thousands of people within a 400-meter walk. Basically, to walk to a transit stop, no more than 400 meters, everyone wants to be 400 meters, so 500 yards or whatever, within a transit stop, you can walk down the road and get a bus. But if that 400 meters becomes a mile, you must walk a mile to get to the nearest transit. There are not many people near that transit line and what then happens is the frequency of the buses, so the bus comes every half an hour or every hour, and then it’s not convenient. So in a lot of cities like London, they don’t even have like a timetable. Buses come every 10 minutes. You’re going to be waiting at most 10 minutes. And of course, now there are apps and technology, which show you it’s coming in six minutes. The straight urban design of America has been a massive holdback and technology will change that in due course. I can imagine an Uber-type service where you could call a sort of shuttle that would pick you up from the suburbs and take you to a high transit line. But obviously, in the meantime, we’ve got this thing called a bicycle and then massively increases that 400-meter mark because you might be happy to bike a mile and a half two miles or more to get to somewhere. And in Las Vegas, I was there many years ago, now all the buses there had bike racks on the front. You don’t think of Las Vegas as a biker city thing as a big suburban city but you’ve got a lot of people in Las Vegas who are working in these hotels or casinos and are not all making much money. They don’t want to drive and pay for parking at the hotel and so they’re looking at the bus and they’re coming from cheaper suburbs since they might bike to do that. One-and-a-half-mile bike ride, which isn’t much, but you can really get a sweat on. You put your bike on the front of the bus and you drive in a lot of other places around the world, you park your bike at the train station. You just roll up, park your bike and get on the train, or you can take your bike to the train station. I think the power of the bike to kind of the first mile, last mile kind of thing like the mile to get to the bus or the train to the mile to get from the train station to your office or destination. Biking can really help that and they get a lot faster and a lot cheaper. People are conscious of money and let alone the climate impact of that. Getting more people on bikes can have a real impact on this bigger transit and transportation issue, including getting using transit more.
William Leonard
I agree. Just being here in Atlanta, you go to the BeltLine on a weekend or a beautiful day like it is today. You see nothing but people riding bikes, new bikes, electric bikes, whatever it is. Really interesting and I think you’re right about the density differences that exist in places like Amsterdam and abroad versus the US. I think there is a huge opportunity for somebody who is passionate about solving these issues at scale to build software and technology to help the US better adopt this technology and become a more climate-friendly country as a whole. The interesting impact there. And as you sort of think about Love To Ride here in Q2 2023, what are some of the things that you’re excited about for the rest of this year? Looking beyond, you have over 600,000 members on the app and over 105 million miles tracked. What do you envision for Love To Ride over the next few months and years down the road?
Thomas Stokell
There’s a lot to be excited about right now in our business, especially just closing this seed round with Valor. Obviously, bringing some more capability into the business and new team members and expertise. We’re launching this new app. We’ve got this new app that’s in open beta on iOS, we’re finishing the Android version of it, and that’s that passive tracking app. We’re building some cool new features in there allowing riders around the world to basically rate the routes that they ride on, so give feedback to the city on how safe and comfortable they feel on different routes. We can aggregate all that data and cities can view this sort of stress map of their city or this comfort map, and use that data to make decisions. That’s going to be super cool for a whole lot of reasons, great for riders to enable them to contribute to making their community bike friendly, and that benefits them and their community. Cool, interesting set of data that will be useful to identify problem areas in their city, and use that data to make a business case, to local residents, local businesses, to elected officials, to colleagues. We’re taking out these three car parking spaces and putting in this bike lane here because 88% of people who bike here feel unsafe and uncomfortable. They can also use it to measure sort of ROI because once they put a bike lane on or some kind of infrastructure, the next time someone writes down, they will ask them to rewrite that bit and tell us how their experience has changed. We could use that data to sort of justify that investment and further investment and more biking infrastructure because of the impact, the real impact that it’s having on people’s experience of biking in our cities. We’re not going to rebrand. We’re looking to rebrand our app, the rider app. Another thing I would encourage founders to do was to find an agency like a design agency or a proper one that is passionate about your business and what you’re doing. We spend 15,000 British pounds, which is $20,000. That was a few years ago now when we started the company, but it was the best 50,000 pounds I ever spent because we got an agency to give us a badass brand that stood the test. We’ve had this brand for eight years. We still get great comments and feedback on the color and the feeling of our brand assets and the brand guidelines. On the internet when you search for examples of some agencies with top rep brand guidelines and our brand is included in there as a cool brand. It’s good money. We’ll do the same thing again, we’ll go to our agency to do it properly, it is worth the money. That’s one thing I would say is worth the money. What else are we excited about? I’m just getting more customers and more riders. We have a stories feature on our site and we obviously measure changes in behavior and combine those two things, to see all the data and the volume of change. You’re having to see real-life stories of people getting back on the bike after 20 years and rediscovering this feeling of freedom and fun and being outside and arriving at places with a smile, I’m thinking energized because that is like moving their body to get somewhere like all this stuff. It’s super cool and we have this feature in Love To Ride, which is about encouraging other people, we track that. If you encourage someone to ride a bike, we mention that on the platform, and then you can see you’ve encouraged 20 people to join the platform, and there’s so much riding they’re doing. But then we also track the next layers down, right? So you encourage your friend Jules and then Jules encourages 10 people and one of those people encourages like the whole company has signed up. It’s kind of just pay it forward measurement of impact. It’s pretty cool that we’re able to do that and show the impact that people are having. We’re going to do some more work on that to visualize it in a whole nother way because I’m for brands and companies to help us out. It’s a cool time.
William Leonard
I love the gamified sort of approach here to building the app and encouraging riders to add more riders to the app. I think you will have a lot of tailwinds behind you, given the regulatory standpoint that is now taking shape over the country. I think the Inflation Reduction Act was one of the single largest climate change investments made by the American government in history. I think it was 369 billion, I believe, and so things like that are really going to be a positive change as you all go to market.
Thomas Stokell
There are a lot of federal dollars not just here in America but around the world and as the climate becomes more and more pressing to address when you look to something like biking, specifically short trips, like under a couple of miles kind of thing. It’s a crazy number of trips that are bikable, even here in the US without that density. There’s a whole bunch of quiet streets. I would talk about putting in more bike lanes and think about how much of your city is a quiet street. A lot of your city is a quiet street but we drive on those main busy roads because they’re faster in a car. Typically, not always, if they’re fully congested, and it’s faster. But they’re the one block over from that fast, busy street, it’s typically a quiet street that you could ride a bike on. We do have a lot of latent infrastructure and one in three Americans on a bike. It’s got a lot of latent demand there. What we’re trying to do here at Love To Ride is get more of those people to rediscover get back on that bike, get it tuned up, get on the road again, slowly over time, get that confidence up, and then eventually get them to ride for transportation. We recognize one of the behavior change theories on which we probably do not have time today to talk about is this idea of baby steps, like getting people to do a little wee step in the right direction. There’s a guy called BJ Fogg of Stanford’s Behavioral Unit and he says, if you want to run every day, don’t commit to running a mile every day or two miles every day or whatever. Just commit to putting your running shoes on going out your front door and locking the door, breathing out the front door, and going back. And that’s okay, you did the thing today. Chances are, it’s a small commitment, the opponent has got the front of you as a runner on the block and you’ll find that you’ll do that behavior more because it’s a small, little step. So we’ll apply that on the platform throughout the whole experience, really, of getting people to think about the next tiny little step on that behavioral journey.
William Leonard
Create and lead to big progress. As we wrap up this conversation, Thomas, I think you shared a lot of great insights for our listeners, and obviously Love To Ride is operating at the forefront of biking and software and technology for governments and businesses of all sizes. But there’s a ton of climate spending, I think, and climate funding that is coming from investors as well. Are there any opportunities that you see for founders who are looking to build and solve problems in this space to tackle now, because of market timing and the influx of venture dollars coming into the market?
Thomas Stokell
I don’t doubt there’s a whole ton. I read something today like a CrunchBase thing, that there’s the amount of investment money going into climate-based startups is not really slowing down as much as every other sector. So it’s an exciting time to be in the climate space and certainly in tech. As far as advice for entrepreneurs, definitely always be on the lookout for opportunities but I learned early on to pick an entrepreneurial endeavor and a business that you’re passionate about. You got to be passionate. Secondly, that’s in line with your values. Like you’ve got to really believe and believe in it. And it’s thirdly, the expertise thing is no joke. I’ve been in this biking industry for 20 years, right? So I know a lot about the market and the customers and getting into a new market right now or a new sort of opportunity, I see a lot of students who have like, seen or not seen an opportunity to do something. Sometimes that can work out and sometimes you lose steam because you’re not passionate about it. Sometimes you kind of dropped the ball because you don’t know that market or industry as well as you should. Or if you end up selling a product or a service that doesn’t really align with your values, so you kind of lose that moral steam, which I think is actually quite important. But if you meet those three criteria and you see an opportunity, absolutely go for it. Give it a really good crack. There’s money out there for it and there’s a supportive community of other entrepreneurs and founders and investors and just good people who want to see you succeed. It’s a good time to be in climate check having to solve the problem.
William Leonard
Thomas, thank you for joining me today. You’ve shared a lot of insights about your background and New Zealand and going across the world and how you ultimately became extremely passionate about this problem. Now you’re building software to solve for governments and businesses around the world. We’re really excited about the impact that you’ve had on climate change and looking forward to supporting you along this journey of building Love To Ride. Cheers.
Lisa Calhoun
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